Corporate Pastor! Not For Me
Peter Walker had this to say in comment# 8 of The Corporate Pastor Wine OA
Really interesting! I’d be terrified if my employer brought in a pastor to my workplace (a credit union). And I want to BE a pastor someday!
I think it’s great that he drank wine with the workers – just like Jesus But I’m still uncomfortable with the union of “Church and Business.” These days, business (economics) IS the state. The World State. It’s not about nations, it’s about business. And if we let our guard down and allow businesses to…
…well, perhaps I’m getting ahead of myself.
This is probably all very harmless, and in fact positive in many ways.
I just think we need to be careful where we bring “official” ministry into play. I think I would be much more comfortable having a “Christian Counselor” on staff than a “Pastor.”
June 5th, 2006 · 11 Comments
Categories: Doable Evangelism
Helen M. said
am June 6 2006 @ 6:01 am
I think a corporate pastor would freak me out too. A Christian counselor might also. I’d prefer a counselor whose own beliefs/non-beliefs/orientation in practice were open enough that he/she wouldn’t be declared ‘Christian’. And one who was able to respect and work with whatever beliefs/non-beliefs his/her clients hold, using his/her own skills and experience as a counselor.
Bruce L. said
am June 6 2006 @ 7:44 am
This comment is less about a business-hired pastor and more about the interplay between business and faith. I am a pastor and I belong to a business networking group. When I first started going, I could see the members’ caution toward me. However, as time has progressed, I have been warmly received. I’m also about to be added to the Board of Directors of the local Chamber of Commerce. My conclusion is that there is a place for faith in the marketplace but it requires the cultivation of trust and relationship. This requires time and investment of self in the community.
Jim said
am June 6 2006 @ 7:45 am
The corporate pastor in this case meets these criteria
Lisa W. said
am June 6 2006 @ 9:21 am
In the secular arena ‘Corporate Counselors’ are abundant. They act as pastors. Here in the Police Department where I work we have a Chaplain. He is here for the employees and the public. It works.
Helen M. said
am June 6 2006 @ 10:06 am
Jim I trust you and your recommendation would outweigh any hesitation I had based on the label ‘corporate pastor’.
Hopefully even if there was no-one I knew well telling me good things about the corporate pastor, I’d be open to finding out more about him rather than being put off by the label ‘corporate pastor’. Maybe if nothing else my curiosity would incite me to check him out
I do find it a scary label, though.
Peter Walker said
am June 6 2006 @ 11:20 am
My conclusion is that there is a place for faith in the marketplace but it requires the cultivation of trust and relationship. This requires time and investment of self in the community.
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Bruce, as a community leader and Chamber Board Member myself, I’ve come to the same conclusions. But I find it equally tenuous being a community leader, a businessperson, and a man of faith. What if I come to a point where my faith pushes me to make BAD business decisions, or UNPOPULAR community resolutions?
I don’t think it’s even a question of “what if.” The Gospel DOES ask more of me than polite society (even polite, small-town conservative, Christian-normed society) allows.
I hate to sound all doom and gloom (I’m really generally very optimistic) but my success regularly betrays the radical nature of the Gospel.
Jim said
am June 6 2006 @ 4:55 pm
Here is what I found provocative about this idea of a pastor for the workplace-
I have been reading Leslie Newbigin and about William Wilberforce – the Christian leader of the anti slvaery movement in England in the 18th Century.
Both men had a high view of taking the gospel (very) public. Meaning the values of the kingdom – kindness- generosity – otherliness – being about the other.
Because we have been brainwashed by right wing Christianity – when we hear the word “public” we think “control, winning and self serving” ( too true and too bad) but that is not what these men meant or I mean when I talk about a pastor in the workplace.
Here is what it looks like in practice- he/she is not a “Chaplain” or “minister” no special designations are made about them or over them. They literally are there to OA people- To pastor anyone – regardless of their beliefs or non beliefs.
It is the parish mentality taken into the real parish most people live in – their job – The pastor encourages, listens and if people want it – prays for them – he is not a counselor but he will counsel – He is hired to pay attention to people and attend to the real parts of their lives
It is not reqiured that employees utilize this service
I really like this idea and look forward to seeing how it plays out
I think we should not organize our loves or our innovations in reaction to those who lead by fear using the same language- I will not let them ( right wingers) limit me or define me in any way –
I answer to Jesus and his kingdom not their limitations
Helen M. said
am June 6 2006 @ 5:42 pm
Everything you said about the role of the ‘corporate pastor’ sounds awesome, Jim.
NCxian said
am June 9 2006 @ 12:45 pm
I have been intrigued by the notion of the “parish” as a model for the way for the Body of Christ to interact in our communities. The folks I have read who are talking about it are discussing our connecting with and taking care of everybody in our communities, despite what their religious beliefs may be. They have been talking about geographic communities, but I can imagine how one might translate that into a work community.
The piece that I have never worked out to my satisfaction is this. In situations where parishes flourish(ed), the population was pretty homogenous from a religious sense. Everybody was Catholic (or Church of England) or some other state or culturally proscribed religion. Even if you didn’t “belong” to the church, or profess that religion, if you ever did get religious, there was only one direction to go in. (I would be interested to know if countries that had parishes behaved the same toward their Jewish populations as everybody else?)
I wonder if our pluralistic culture makes the notion of “parish” behavior less workable? There is no notion in our culture, for example, that everyone is either a good Catholic or a hold-out Catholic-to-be.
Peter Walker said
am June 9 2006 @ 5:29 pm
I wonder if our pluralistic culture makes the notion of “parish” behavior less workable? There is no notion in our culture, for example, that everyone is either a good Catholic or a hold-out Catholic-to-be.
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Interesting NCxian. Would it be possible to be a loving, supportive minister in a community of Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and Christians? Forget THEIR (the other religions’) acceptance of us. Could WE be true to the Gospel in serving them?
I have a hunch the answer is “yes,” but I know a lot of Christians (most of my pastors – those the Lord has put in leadership “over me”) who would call it downright heresy, if not wicked, pagan, compromised or sinful.
How do we get other Christians to ALLOW us to live the Gospel?
NCxian said
am June 9 2006 @ 7:53 pm
IMO, it would really require a radical re-thinking of what the good news is. And it would strike right at the heart of the evangelical “commission”. My impression is that the discussion is taking place among Christian thinkers. But I can’t fathom the evangelical rank-and-file being able to understand it as anything but dangerous compromise. A generation or two may have to pass.
As far as I know, it may be a situation of reclaiming some characteristic of Christianity from the past. Didn’t some ancient historian say that the early Christians put the Romans to shame by taking care of the Roman sick, dying, widows and orphans?