Taking ourselves too seriously
Jason Clark is a leader in the UK Emergent Church and a very good friend of Jim’s.
This is from Jason’s latest blog entry:
All Christians have a solemn and moral duty to engage in self criticism, to those who oppose our faith, and our forms of church. No matter how much we believe we are right, and like the beliefs and expressions we hold. For to long we have been unable to criticize ourselves, taking ourselves too seriously.
Whether involved in traditional forms of church, or engaged in new ones. Do we regularly stand back and take a critical look at ourselves, or do we continue to form ourselves our of the critique of others. And this critique is undertaken in dialogue with people who are other than us, outside of what we believe and do, to help us escape the endless journey of self reference.
To critique what I believe, and what I do, does not mean to give up my beliefs, and position. I’m convinced that one of the sign of an openness to self critique, is can we laugh at and lampoon ourselves.
You can read the whole entry here on his blog: Self-Criticism
August 2nd, 2006 · 15 Comments
Categories: Doable Evangelism
Helen M. said
am August 13 2006 @ 3:12 am
The August edition of our e-zine is now out!
E-zine visitors, please feel free to share your thoughts about “Taking Ourselves too Seriously”.
Read the new e-zine and subscribe here:
Off The Map e-zine – August 2006
Mike O. said
am August 14 2006 @ 8:53 am
I agree, sort of. But one thing I’ve noticed on these blogs is that I think they have gotten away from the original intent. I guess that would be up to Jim to decide, but only having been participating for a week or so, it just seems like these blogs aren’t what they were intended to be.
My understanding, based on reading Jim’s book, looking at the “Lost” interviews, and pretty much anything posted by Jim himself, the goal was for Christians to more effectively communicate with non-Christians by seeing things from their perspective. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I see when I read Jim.
But what these blogs turn into is not a way of “helping Christians communicate,” but rather “justifying why non-Christians aren’t Christians.” It could just be the mix of blogs I’ve participated in. Or it could be that I don’t quite understand the goal here. Like I said, I’ve only been here a week, but sometimes a fresh look from fresh eyes can be revealing when the old-timers have been involved too long and things start to drift from the original purpose.
Just a thought.
Jerry said
am August 14 2006 @ 9:13 am
I’m inclined to agree with Mike here. While there are some encouraging things happening here, the majority of the posts I’ve read seem designed to make Christians feel guilty about following Jesus. Nearly all the posts I’ve read from Christians bend over backwards to agree with every little thing an atheist posts while at the same time confessing a quasi-spiritual guilt about believing the claims of Christ. Paul said “I am not ashamed of the gospel” but most of the Christians here seem to have the opposite confession. Surely there is a balance somewhere but I have yet to see it.
One other observation: I am a little uneasy regarding the token nature of the atheists that have been placed in leadership roles here. There is a sense of parading them in front of the church as if to say, “Look how spiritual we are! We have an atheist!” It reminds me of the early days of affirmative action when if you were a white middle class male you had to find a black friend so you could prove to everyone you weren’t a bigot. “This is my black friend!”
I am in whole-hearted agreement with much of what is going on here. I love the open dialog, I love the respect and dignity with which people are treating ech other. I love the idea of breaking out of old tired cliches and looking at things differently. But not at the expense of Truth. The Truth sets us free and, no matter what else we do here, if that gets lost none of the rest of it matters a bit.
Jim said
am August 14 2006 @ 9:44 am
Jerry (and to some extent Mike)
I appreciate your willingness to explore our little world here at the OTM blogs.
You express a concern that is certainly understandable and one we have heard about from other friends in the past.
In order to make it easier for you to understand the intent of the blogs I will be direct.
In my opinion (please remember those words) For too long (say at least 500 years) the church has erred on the side of “not being of the world” and defined itself primarliy as arbiters of “The Truth”. The results are mixed to be sure but suffice it to say that there is much room for improvement when it comes to understanding what “being in the world” means.
OTM is committed to helping followers of Jesus re learn what “being in the world” might look like (please remember that I am fully aware of the need for “balance”) but we feel that the church has drifted from our founders (Jesus) original intention so dramatically that it is appropriate to explore and provide a stage for voices and expressions that will provoke the church (to good works)that being refocusing on our primary mission to love people and extend the Kingdom of God. Incuded in that is the need for pepople to know the one who loves them – Jesus.
OTM is particularly interested in trying to reimagine how all of this might play out and in our pursuit of this will no doubt drift into what some think of as error or worse. We are simply following in the traditions of our spiritual forefathers who in their zeal to protect (and define) The Truth, seem quite content to have established a situation whre Jesus is often no longer even associated with Christianity.
That makes it impossible for us to sit dispassionately by and allow religion to continue to hijack Jesus’s Movement. If in our quest to bring “balance” we err on the other side we feel comfortable since the founder of our family business was often accused of the same.
Thank you for interacting with us and gicing us a read.
Mike O. said
am August 14 2006 @ 10:28 am
Thank you, Jim. While it’s not entirely comfortable for me, I do appreciate what OTM is about … reconnecting Christians with the rest of the world.
Thank you for the open forum. It’s nice to know that while not everyone will agree with everything that is said out here (including me!), this is nevertheless a place where Christians and non-Christians alike can speak freely and partake in the exchange of ideas. Yes, Christians have a ways to go in learning how to communicate in a culture other than our own, my hope and prayer is that the non-Christians out here will also seek to understand where we are coming from. After all, the Christians out here are interested in understanding everyone else’s point of view.
Maybe it’s the valuing of opinions … have we gone from not valuing the opinons of others to not valuing our own? I don’t know what the right answer even should be, but as a Christian posting on a Christian community called ordinaryattempts (at what?)” and doableevangelism, I would hope that the Christian message is at least valued as highly as the alternatives.
By the way, I am not antagonistic to what you’re doing here. While I’m personally uncomfortable with parts of it, I do see the value of it. In fact, I am using your “Lost” Interviews as material and discussion starters for our Community Service group called “Enough Talk.” Why?? Because the Christians I associate with need a freakin’ clue about what and how people outside the church tick. And for that, I thank you.
Thanks again, Jim!
Jim Watters said
am August 14 2006 @ 1:15 pm
I read Jason’s comment on his blog last week; I am really glad that you reposted it here for more to see. I think that what Jason is saying is important for many of us to get ahold of – as it is so easy, at least it is for me, to think that I am OK and that I am doing the right stuff, only to miss doing anything worthwhile at all. Being overly critical of myself or oneself is probably not healthy, but thinking that I have it all together is not all that healthy either.
It is Jason’s point, being willing to engage in self criticism, that helps me to stay connected to my friends who are A.K.A. Lost in an authentic and genuine way. I am refreshed by self evaluation, (sometimes, and sometimes it bums me out) it helps me remain aware that this whole missional living thing is a much bigger deal than I am and that I need to be as real in my assesment of who I am and what I am doing as I can be. Sorry for the ramble, but I wanted to share how valuable Jason’s comments were to me.
Helen said
am August 14 2006 @ 1:48 pm
Yes indeed. Thanks for your comments, Jim.
Jeff Medders said
am August 14 2006 @ 2:36 pm
If you are offended by Jason’s comments above then you may need to hear it the most. Relax. Really. I haven’t read anything that souded like compromising the truth. I have however enjoyed some great banter about how we should and should not deliver the truth. Christianity didn’t die for you Jesus did. It seems to me that Jim and the gang can tell the difference.
Jim said
am August 14 2006 @ 3:11 pm
You guys are a lot of fun.
I agree that we need to stop taking our selves so seriously especially since often we can’t tell whether what we are defending or offended by is something Jesus invented or something we’ve inherited by traditions of the Christianity.
think about how often Jesus offended the Pharisees. It was like his recreation. And he used Non Cs to do all of it ( I know…)
Why should we not expect him to do that to us?
Helen said
am August 14 2006 @ 5:10 pm
Jerry wrote:
We’re not ashamed of Jesus or following Jesus.
We are ashamed of the same things Paul was ashamed of. We’re ashamed of the times when our zeal for God resulted in us persecuting people instead of loving them, which meant we were persecuting Jesus too. Like Paul Jesus has turned us around and we’re thankful for that.
If you’re referring to me, I’m not an atheist, by the way. I’m a non-traditional Christian.
I suppose everyone who has a friend not like them could get accused of just trying to prove something. But some people genuinely like those who are not like them.
Thanks.
It’s precisely because the truth sets us free that we oppose any so-called ‘truth’ which in fact binds people with chains of shame and guilt.
We do this using the weapons which we believe God has called us to use.
We expect to be misunderstood because that’s what happens to people who follow Jesus and don’t let anyone turn them back.
And…we have fun because Jesus set us free from taking ourselves too seriously.
Jim said
am August 14 2006 @ 9:05 pm
I’m with Helen my “almost an atheist” colleague
Helen M. said
am August 15 2006 @ 3:49 am
Thanks Jim.
Yes, I’m “almost an atheist” but at the same time I might have a personal relationship with Jesus.
And despite what some Christians may think, lack of certainty is not the unforgivable sin
Jim said
am August 15 2006 @ 9:41 am
Helen
I was expecting you to correct me since you do have a NTPR with JC
Helen M. said
am August 15 2006 @ 9:50 am
But Jim, I am ‘almost an atheist’ so I didn’t see anything to correct
It all depends how one measures ‘distance’, I suppose.
ephedra said
am December 4 2007 @ 8:04 pm
ephedra…
news…