Have you Guys Drifted???
Mike was concerned enough about our blogs to post this in response to Jason Clarks article
Are We Taking Ourselves Too Seriously
one thing I’ve noticed on these blogs is that I think they have gotten away from the original intent. I guess that would be up to Jim to decide, but only having been participating for a week or so, it just seems like these blogs aren’t what they were intended to be.
My understanding, based on reading Jim’s book, looking at the “Lost” interviews, and pretty much anything posted by Jim himself, the goal was for Christians to more effectively communicate with non-Christians by seeing things from their perspective. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I see when I read Jim.
But what these blogs turn into is not a way of “helping Christians communicate,” but rather “justifying why non-Christians aren’t Christians.” It could just be the mix of blogs I’ve participated in. Or it could be that I don’t quite understand the goal here. Like I said, I’ve only been here a week, but sometimes a fresh look from fresh eyes can be revealing when the old-timers have been involved too long and things start to drift from the original purpose
August 14th, 2006 · 8 Comments
Categories: Doable Evangelism
Pam Hogeweide said
am August 14 2006 @ 10:17 am
Hm, well Mike, maybe it’s both. Perhaps as we learn to connect in meaningful ways with unchurched people we are also learning how unmeaningful we have been. I wonder if what you are observing is a kind of dismantling of one mindset as a new one is being built in regards to evangelism.
Appreciate your fresh eyes and ears to hear and see what we can’t.
Mike O. said
am August 14 2006 @ 10:53 am
I posted this to Jim’s response in “Taking ourselves too seriously,” but I’m copying it here, too since it’s a new thread.
Thank you all! Mike.
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Thank you, Jim. While it’s not entirely comfortable for me, I do appreciate what OTM is about … reconnecting Christians with the rest of the world.
Thank you for the open forum. It’s nice to know that while not everyone will agree with everything that is said out here (including me!), this is nevertheless a place where Christians and non-Christians alike can speak freely and partake in the exchange of ideas. Yes, Christians have a ways to go in learning how to communicate in a culture other than our own, my hope and prayer is that the non-Christians out here will also seek to understand where we are coming from. After all, the Christians out here are interested in understanding everyone else’s point of view.
Maybe it’s the valuing of opinions … have we gone from not valuing the opinons of others to not valuing our own? I don’t know what the right answer even should be, but as a Christian posting on a Christian community called ordinaryattempts (at what?)” and doableevangelism, I would hope that the Christian message is at least valued as highly as the alternatives.
By the way, I am not antagonistic to what you’re doing here. While I’m personally uncomfortable with parts of it, I do see the value of it. In fact, I am using your “Lost” Interviews as material and discussion starters for our Community Service group called “Enough Talk.” Why?? Because the Christians I associate with need a freakin’ clue about what and how people outside the church tick. And for that, I thank you.
Thanks again, Jim!
Helen said
am August 14 2006 @ 1:26 pm
These blogs have never been about “My message is better than yours”.
They’re much more about “Hey, maybe if I listen to you I can learn why you prefer your message to mine.”
We may as well stop sharing our message and listen to why they prefer theirs because as long as they do prefer theirs we’re rather wasting our breath trying to sell ours.
Unless they’re also listening.
Which they might be more likely to do if we listen to them first.
Jim said
am August 14 2006 @ 3:07 pm
Mike
This raises an issue near to my heart. I do not see Non Cs having a mission to understand Cs. Jesus told us to go into their world. They have no mission to reach us or understand us.
The incarnation is our model and our mission.We hide ourselves, we lose our life we become less so he can become more. Whether Non Cs or even Cs for that matter work equally hard to understand me iks somethign I cannot count on or even expect.
Jesus told me to go to them. I have nevere seen anything where he told them to come to me.
Peter Walker said
am August 14 2006 @ 6:18 pm
Mike brings a valuable reminder here though – that of focus (or perhaps “Mission”) and it can be easy to meander into unfruitful discussion one might call (Campolo or McLaren might call) an “Adventure in Missing the Point.” I think that most of the time, any communication has benefits, even if there are drawbacks or negatives attached. But it sounds to me like Mike is saying (Mike, feel free to correct me here) that if all we do is “justify” or validate non-Christian opinions, we’re not really doing a whole lot…
It’s like going to churches where all the pastor does is joke about how STUPID the world is and how SMART and RIGHT it is to be a Christian. I bold that because I hear it so much in churches! But this could be the antithesis – validating unbelief to the point of hollow compliments and kind pats on the back… which can be patronizing, even for someone who is certain they are right.
Let me clarify, I’m not saying I think we (our blogs) are THERE, but if I get Mike’s drift, it’s an unhealthy imbalance that could occur with a lack of balance or dynamic tension (or spiritual leading).
Blanketing compliments aren’t much more productive than close-minded bigotry. It all leaves out the “both/and” of reality.
Maybe I’m getting off on a tangent here, but I wanted to validate Mike O’s comment (not blindly though!) without affirming that the OTM Blogscape has gone there.
Wishy washy? Perhaps. But wishy washy with looooove…
Mike O said
am August 14 2006 @ 7:54 pm
Thanks, Jim. I see your point, that it’s the Christian’s responsibility to understand, and it is not necessarily mutual. We (I!) do need to do that, and I, for one, am trying. In fact, I am taking what I learn here and applying it to my othere conversations in life. So the understanding part I get.
And thanks, Peter. I think we’re on the same page (or at least you understand what page I’m on!). It’s hard to wrap words around it, but at some level, if everything we say or do, we say or do in a way that allows all alternative viewpoints to remain comfortably entrenched in their way of thinking, then is it truly a meaningful dialogue? Or is it just a one-way mechanism for Christians to learn from others, but not the other way around?
Jim, I could not agree more with everything you said. I want to understand the people Jesus misses most. But if we also want to impact those alternative views and give them food for thought (just like we are doing for Christians), then as Peter puts it, there should be some dynamic tension. Otherwise the alternative views gain nothing from these interactions other than the pleasure of having corrected a Christian. And somehow I don’t think that’s the goal Jesus had in mind. Yes, we must become less, but it is so that HE can become more.
And heck, we can still do that with wishy washy looooove, can’t we?
Jim said
am August 14 2006 @ 9:09 pm
Nice Mike
DoableEvangelism » Blog Archive » Conservative Christian changes mind said
am October 12 2006 @ 9:48 am
[...] But I still wasn’t on board with everything. Some of my early entries were even used as blog starters, for which I am truly grateful. My voice, while going against the flow, was valued here. Blogs such as Mike O Cries ‘ICK! and Too much dead squirrel? and Have you guys drifted were my reactions to topics where I thought things were getting out of balance. [...]