it seems that a common thread running through ‘why people don’t see the need for God’ is this apparent lack of “quid pro quo.” Christians preach it, and somehow believe (hope??) in it, but it’s not there. I wonder if atheists see this disparity (Christians saying God works one way, but reality seems to indicate otherwise) and that’s why they don’t believe in God. I sense a lot of “if God existed, this or that wouldn’t work like it does.” Quid pro quo??

Mike, I think it’s a combination of atheists not seeing God do what Christians seem to be telling them he will and Christian ‘excuses’ why he didn’t not seeming good enough; and also atheists not seeing God do what atheists think a benevolent deity would do. (The atheists in the first and second half of my sentence quite possibly are the same atheists)

Your comment poignantly illustrates the dillema many of us feel having been taught that Quid Pro Quo of Evangelicalism. I give to God = He gives back to me.

I haven’t been able to get this “quid pro quo” comment out of my head - I may write about it on the ebay atheist blog. I may be wrong, but it seems that a common thread running through ‘why people don’t see the need for God’ is this apparent lack of “quid pro quo.” Christians preach it, and somehow believe (hope??) in it, but it’s not there. I wonder if atheists see this disparity (Christians saying God works one way, but reality seems to indicate otherwise) and that’s why they don’t believe in God. I sense a lot of “if God existed, this or that wouldn’t work like it does.” Quid pro quo??

Or people who used to be Christians - could it be that a misunderstanding of “quid pro quo” was an ingredient that helped to nudge them away from Christ? That seems a bit strong, but …

This needs to be fleshed out a bit before I can write on it, but this thought has been stuck like a sliver in my brain since you wrote it, Jim.

Thanks for that.

I’ve always been a faithful tither and giver. Why, if I’m a follower of Christ, didn’t he come through for me sooner?

Mike

I hear the humility in this - it comes with hanging in there with Jesus regardless of what life brings.

Your comment poignantly illustrates the dillema many of us feel having been taught that Quid Pro Quo of Evangelicalism. I give to God = He gives back to me.

We buy this because it is the better alternative the two choices but alos in spite of what Jesus himself said: “Lose your life and you’ll find it”

What kind of an invitation is that? It is an ivitation to the UNKNOWN - your “perhaps” point.

In issuing that kind of invitation God is not promising us anything tangible - he is inviting us to enter the mysterious world of Love.

And what I’m finding out, is that in ministry, a lot of our canned answers and conventional theology is for the angels, and not for humans.

I am SO on that page!

One verse that is just running through my brain lately is 1 Samuel 14:6 - “Perhaps the Lord will act in our behalf …”

Perhaps??

We don’t know what the future holds. But I’m glad I’ve come to the place that my faith does not hinge on things going my way.

I started a stock trading business a few years ago. Before I started, I believe God showed me what the money would go for, how to allocate the giving (which was generous) and what I would keep. It truly was a ministry to raise capital for the kingdom of God.

It failed. I lost about $15,000 which I couldn’t afford to lose. Why would god let something I was doing for HIM fail?? I don’t know. But he did and I’m OK with that. Perhaps the Lord will act on our behalf.

I was recently laid off. It took me 6 1/2 months to find another job. I lost about 1/2 of my retirement in the deal. I’ve always been a faithful tither and giver. Why, if I’m a follower of Christ, didn’t he come through for me sooner? I don’t know, but he didn’t. Perhaps the Lord will act in our behalf. But what I do know is that I did get the job I got 6 1/2 months later. I trusted him, and I landed here. Am I happy with his performance throughout this crisis? Absolutely!!