Comments on: Connecting with the Gay and Lesbian Community

By: todd

todd — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:37:21 +0000

thanks, Audrey. I’d love to talk more about this; I know I have a lot to learn–but this probably isn’t the place. please email me; tcullop@gmail.com. I’d like to hear more of your perspective and experience.

By: Audrey

Audrey — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 22:05:06 +0000

Hi Todd,

Thanks for your very sensible post. I think the sentiments are good, but the truth is, the lesbian and gay community is a different culture. And we do need churches that gays and lesbian completely run, control the finances of, and define the theology.

Welcoming and affirming churches can do an excellent job for “assimilated gays and lesbian”– the group that want to be “just like everyone else.” The thing is, I’m not particularly interested in assimilation, and this is far too complex and issue. I think this site will be more gay 101 stuff, but I’m way past that now.

What is needed is programs for gay and lesbian seniors, our most isolated group. And if there are programs, gays and lesbians need to have larger group showings, because we don’t want to be tokens. I have to deal with this way too much in the work world, and it isn’t any fun.

As Alice Walker once said: “I never want to be the ONLY one anymore.”

By: todd

todd — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 18:26:19 +0000

I am excited about the possibility of creating a more open atmosphere in the overall Church.

I used to pastor a church that had a couple gay members. One of these men said he wanted to be a part of a church where all people felt accepted and had a place to serve without their homosexuality being a big issue. He didn’t want to be a part of a church that was against him, but also didn’t want to be a part of a church where sexuality was the defining characteristic.

I’m not knocking churches like MCC, they are pioneers in doing tremendous work for the Kingdom. But I would like the Church as a whole move toward a culture where separate churches aren’t needed for any particular group of people because the mainstream church doesn’t accept them.

Aideen–thanks for the info, I am eager to connect with GCN.

I applaud you guys at OTM for entering this conversation.

By: Audrey

Audrey — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 00:17:57 +0000

Sorry to be so harsh with you all Randy. I just call it as I see it.

I encourage all of the straight christians coming here — because your daughter just came out to you, or your son married a man, or someone in your church may have been excommunicated for being lesbian or gay, to continue reading and studying.

If you want to get an unvarnished opinion from a lesbian feminist Christian, then I’ll be happy to address the questions.

Good luck with the basics! And remember gay doesn’t mean woman, it is a term to describe gay men.
Lesbians are a completely different community, and we have a different herstory as well.

By: Randy

Randy — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 23:40:33 +0000

Audrey,
We do have a lot to learn. And we need to listen better. While I appreciate very much your commenting here, please understand that this site is not a GLBT site, but rather a site that is trying to help Christians (in particular, the evangelical sort) to respectfully and gently connect with people who are not like them.

I am sorry you are angry about what we have not learned and are not doing (you must have been hurt by one of us), but please…we need encouragement, not a lashing. We are learning. We may not agree entirely with you, but we would love to learn from you. It’s just hard to hear what you’re saying when you sound so much like US (when we have talked about homosexuality in the past)!

Thanks for the reading list. Please forgive us for our shortcomings. We’re listening.

By: Audrey

Audrey — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:24:13 +0000

I just had to list some really good authors — all lesbian and gay Christians.
Chris Glaser, Carter Heyward — she was one of the first women in American ordained an Episcopal priest in the 70s, and has written many great books that deal with the two evils of the church — sexism and homophobia.
Rev. Troy Perry is someone you should get to know. He founded the gay MCC church, which has become a safe haven for lesbians and gays who want to be welcomed and in charge of our own churches.
Rev. Kittredge Cherry has written many books on Jesus, and has a website called Jesusinlove.org
Rev. Nancy Wilson is the head of MCC now, so get to know this powerful lesbian Christian leader.
Don’t over look the black lesbian Christians, who have been powerful leaders.
Mary Daly is a great book for lesbians from a Catholic background. She decodes and uncovers the womanhatred epidemic in the church. Start with her The Church and the Second Sex” published in 1968.
Most of these books and leaders have been around for a very long time, but straight men I guess are the last to know about us. This site seems to be mostly about gay men, and doesn’t really seem clued into lesbian life and experiences. I’d like to see you interview lesbian ministers. I’m sure there are a lot in the Chicago area. Be sure to let lesbians speak for themselves and not through the mouths of straight men.
We don’t relate to male supremacy or sexism anywhere in the world, and I challenge you to deal with the male centric language that you use on this site. You’ve got a lot to learn.

By: Audrey

Audrey — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:47:25 +0000

This is all well and good, but the lesbian and gay community has had plenty of wonderful Christian pastors for over 40 years now. I encourage every lesbian, gay, and transgender Christian to come to Metropolitian Community Churches in your city.
Find out about Rev. Troy Perry’s message that God loves lesbians and gay men, and he has been preaching this message for over 40 years. I’d like to see Rev. Nancy Wilson, Rev. Perry and other lesbian and gay pastoral leaders on this site. I’d also like to see lesbians commenting as well. It seems very male dominated to me, and the use of the term “he” for god is offensive to many lesbians. God is not a man, God is a God, and lesbians are made in the image of this god.

By: Bridging the Gap « Un Simple Historie

Bridging the Gap « Un Simple Historie — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:04:51 +0000

[...] GLBT, Lesbian, LGBT, Love is and Orientation, ThOoze.TV } I found this artical on a site called Doable Evangelism. I am really interested in the work that Andrew Marin is doing and his book “Love is An [...]

By: Randy

Randy — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:31:19 +0000

Kind of a follow up for those interested. A video interview with Andrew Marin:

By: Lori

Lori — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:21:29 +0000

Wow- great topic! I have a few gay friends, most of whom I met in college, and now they are in committed same-sex relationships. I can’t possibly judge their hearts, but their relationships appear to be just as healthy and loving- if not more so- than many marriages I know. This is a controversial thing to say. I have read commentaries on what the Bible says (and doesn’t say) about same-sex relationships and have found compelling arguments for both sides (same-sex activity is always a sin, vs. can be okay if within the context of a committed relationship). I honestly don’t know where I stand- except that I am so grateful that God has not called me to be the sin police! I know many people who treat gay people with love, but I wonder how many churches would be okay with a committed gay couple attending regularly, unless they were trying to change. Then again, would the same be true if it was a male-female couple who was unmarried but sexually involved? Not sure where I’m going with this- I was just thrilled to see it being discussed and had to get my long-pent-up thoughts out there!